that's a trend we can all get behind. ♪ neil: kathleen sebelius, is he serious that she is responsible? you know what, still on the job. should she still be on the job? the hot debate. maybe we are using all the wrong words. companies are not canceling some plans, they are transitioning them. the democratic congressman who says that but cannot argue, more americans are just getting sick of this. can you imagine being forced to watch all of this from the sidelines? you in america know our health care system in and out more, but a judge has already decided but out. after spending 70 months in prison he has done his time and tonight he plans to speak his mind. the first year and only year.

don't look now, but is boeing getting ready to pick another union fight? in of those fans and newt -- fancy new 777 is? does for it wants to build more? in south carolina where it has no union workers. how do you think that will go over? we are all over it. and all over age supersecret, super huge, super something going on in san francisco. the market all treats no tricks. treks disguised as treats. it starting now. ♪ >> here we are five weeks. the news seems to get worse by the day. >> we did not adequately do end to end testing. >> the system is not functioning we are not getting back reliable data. >> madam secretary.

>> told me responsible for the debacle. >> let me say directly to these americans to you deserve better. i apologize. i am accountable. it. ♪ neil: being left out of the cold because kathleen sebelius is still health and human services secretary of the united states, still in charge. a daylong grilling in the house that has many wondering why. i am neil cavuto. she takes a possibility for this health care hullabaloos a. the republican congressman grilling her today. congressman, what do you think of the fact she is still in charge, plane said that she takes full responsibility. many advocate that she should not be in that job. what do you say? >> i think we need to see this through and give her another 30 days. she promised that everything would be fixed within the next 30 days. let's wait until then.

but let's look at what really happened today. first of all, she did plan responsibility and then threw verizon under the boss. then she threw a couple of employees under the boss. i am not sure the sincerity level of for apology. neil: you know, you generally apologize and then promise not to do so again. what i find with my kids sometimes is there will apologize and do the same thing over again. we keep our kids. but they are going to have an argument, despite the apology is secretary as to go because i have been so many that it will take a different head of this department to make it right. if it can be made right. >> and they have a really good point there. the reality here is, they have three years. they are spending as much as $600 million on a website that they could not get right to be

read to sell many fatal flaws within this. as she said, did not tested enough. they did it for two weeks. so the real issue here is trust. visa the same people that are in charge of our health care now. they cannot get a website. that level of trust is now broken. we don't know if we can trust health and human services or anyone involved in obamacare now. neil: congressman, if in 30 days as she promised today if she can't make this ride she should go? >> absolutely. neil: okay. >> they have had three years. we gave them this time. let's see if they can do that. my guess is that they are not going to be able to. i think there are fatal flaws in its programming. >> she also talked about how this will take time.

the president and self coming to massachusetts to say this is not much different than romney care in that state. it took awhile to rollout. mitt romney posting this on his facebook earlier today, congressman, when you're the president was making the comparison. had he actually learned the lessons, millions of americans would not lose the insurance they were promised that they could keep. millions more would not see their premiums skyrocket. he is going obviously to the incubator for the government taking charge of health care. a state, to be fair, made as been a lot smoother than the federal rollout. what do you make of the president making his pitch in massachusetts? >> i think that is very interesting. the president himself as leading to a lack of credibility for his own health care plan. he has promised for the last

three years that you will not lose your health care plan, but the reality is commis is known for three years but that is not true. i have lots of is to joyous that have sent me their cancellation letters. now they're going into the a change in paying more for less. that is not what was promised. the health care rollout in massachusetts was much cleaner than this one. there are two levels of lack of trust year. neil: right. cost obviously went down in massachusetts. hope springs eternal. thank you very much. can you imagine, arguably you know more about health care in this country than anyone in this country, but you have to watch from the sidelines all because of that prison think. maybe a system that says you should not be talking about anything. he is here. he will talk. meanwhile, the white house is talking about accepting a budget deal without any knew taxes.

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neil: the conventional wisdom is that it will get nasty. you know, democrats are going to keep demanding high taxes and more taxes as part of any deal. lo and behold, or that the white house might be pulling a head fake or sincerely meaning they do not want taxes to be part of it. all the suddenness of the white house. >> trying to frame the debate. taxes were never on the table. this is all about spending. this is about the democrats to want more spending. upset at the sequestration. the only fight that the republicans have won with obama since they have been in charge. this should be underneath a cap of sequestration.

if you need more money, get it from reforming entitlements. neil: and trying to figure out the strategy, read the line. they don't want to raise the tax rate. it will close loopholes, special breaks and a mallet -- allowances. in other words to live and wondering if it is a sucker punch. >> it is trying to establish the line in the sand from which to negotiate. they are negotiating taxes and hinting that they will take tax off the table. it will want something for that. the republicans should not fall for that because the republicans say the taxes were never on the table. this is about spending. and our position is, we're going to hold the top line of the sequestration. if you want to change priorities within that, we will talk. neil: you are the expert. as you know, i read a prompter.

i think the strategy is this, they're going to put the onus on republicans to come up with something. and then say, we're not offering taxes. you don't mess around too much spending. we don't walk off when there's. you keep your tax rates and tax allowances in place. we can just walk off the stage. every once miles fine. >> well, that could very well be their strategy. this is a situation where we now have two sides, the senate and house actually getting in a room in talking about these things. the republicans should not be bamboozled by this. neil: when you say bamboozled, what do you mean? they should push hard for cuts in spending? as we know with these issues, cuts in the growth of spending. they never cut anything. they should hold to their guns.

>> the most important thing for the republicans to do is let it be known that they are not going to increase spending and do away with the sequestration. it is not going to happen. that top number, which is not a lot of money, by the way, 40, 50 billion out of the $3 trillion budget. this is the only spending cuts that the republicans have gotten. yes, they want more money put back in the military, but the republicans are willing to hold to the sequestered. they have got the democrats or they want them. the democrats are desperate to spend more money on their favorite programs. they want something. now you can negotiate because the other side wants something. that would keep the lid on the amount of spending cuts brought by sequestration and get any money they need from reforming entitlements. neil: all right. always good seeing you. thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: have you ever noticed some

times, change the language or if you suffer from a malady that you can change the description. say if someone calls you fat and you're tired of it, not that i would know, just a you prefer to be called caloric a challenge. let's say you had your of the insurance policy canceled. no, you have been transitioned. all right. i don't know. they're actually saying he did not lose your policy. you have been transitioned. ♪ i love to eat. i love hanging out with my friends.

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♪ neil: all right. a lot of your getting your chances. this one, got the letter, insurance canceled as of dec.

21st 2013. a termination notice in september, but our new real and better plan will double the premium. isn't anyone worried they want to force everyone into a single payer system? actions speak. democratic congressman sander levinson says these folks are getting it wrong. not cancellations but transitions. >> the congress is transitioning into something more pricey. these folks. >> not entirely right. some people have letters that say you are canceled. more people have got letters saying, you are canceled and by the way, you're being transitioned automatically into a similar policy. >> you guys want to keep throwing that then. some people it is true. there is reality to this that no one wants to acknowledge. like any major piece of legislation there will be winners, losers.

neil: i thought everyone was going to be a winner. do you think this is being pushed, some of you will be losers and some will have to pay double the premiums were three times the premiums and transitioned into more. you think it would have accepted and gotten this to become law. >> the answer is no. neil: every administration. >> the democrats and the republicans. >> people had to give up their health care. neil: someone is lying. >> the president light. it is a sad day. >> but is not a sad day when the republicans live. neil: let me ask you this, now admitting that they knew that some people were going to lose policies. i just wish i would have known that or that would have been said in selling this. now, to his point where there would have made a difference, i don't know. i think it would have changed.

>> barely got it through. absolutely. obama says, keep your doctor. no problem. neil: now they are transitioning transitioning. >> moving over. it. neil: you are a great lawyer. we are doing a segment. it would you call it transitioning when you know you are losing something end going to pay a lot more? >> no, if you're paying a lot more calm but you don't want to acknowledge. neil: you said some people, including yourself. what does that tell you? >> how do you want to it -- neil: you are one of the riches liberals. you are going to pay less. that is not a great pitch. going to pay less. other people in my situation of which there are millions, not old enough for medicare yet, but older.

neil: when all this washes out you will figure out that a lot more people will do better than those. neil: the vendor people are the ones you're going to end up paying more than they would have. let me finish the two sentences. the older people will pay less. you take the younger people. pretty healthy percentage of knowing what people were going to get that number down because of subsidies. it here is where you end up. there will be some who will pay more, but those people will someday be as old as me. >> that is assuming those people realize they're paying more to still suck up the penalty. >> the penalty to million people are not going to pay. they will pay a small amount.

neil: not just your right wing friends from but a lot of freelancers' year at fox, and not just because they put in an application. they're finding out there will pay a bowl of money and don't have it. >> and people don't have the money. neil: you also feel indestructible. >> that is ours. >> if you feel indestructible you are a fool. maybe you would get to the point. it let me say something about the penalties because it is misunderstood. the reality of the $75 penalty, 95, whatever. if you make so little money you are getting subsidies anyhow, and if you reach the point. neil: older guys.

>> changes. >> i think obamacare will last. neil: i wish we had more time. blessedly, we do not. great job, guys. i don't care what you think about richard, but i think it is fair to say that very few in this country know the ins and outs of health care, the various process he goes through to get health care as he does, and he has to sit this one out. he is sitting it out. ready to talk to us next.gulf, d neil: in help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

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♪ neil: and now a fox business first. out of the slammer, but not at all shy about slamming what he calls the bogus charges that it him in prison for 70 months. the latest twist in the life of one man that, let's just say, has had many turns. if there is anyone here knows the health care system and send

out better, even his critics say they would be hard-pressed to find one. for now the former ceo will be forced to watch from the sidelines that leading in the health care reform line. at least in the public health care reform line. a federal judge in alabama has rolled that he leave any public company and his stewardship of healthcare.gov proved it. supporters say they say he is already done his time. seventy months in prison for allegedly trying to buy his way onto the state board courtesy of campaign contribution to the state governor. always insisted that was not a bribe and so, too, as former governor on this very show. >> there was no money in your pocket. you seem to get nothing from this. no one caught you with a briefcase stuffed with hundred dollar bills. >> we have been sent to prison for something, one, that did not

happened, nobody wants to go to prison, but certainly not for something they did not do. neil: nevertheless, both men ended up in jail for crimes that are primarily dismissed by a jury back in 2005. a total of 36 counts in all including everything from insider trading to accounting fraud the fact that government prosecutors refused to give up says something about how prius the target he was, a man who turned it into a $4 billion behemoths. being able to do so, cheaper than the government, and better than the government, often in the supporters say that was the -- that is why he was targeted by the government. it does not help your case. the irony is that despite doing its time despite one of this country's foremost health care

experts can do little more than by this time, offering some ideas that little more on the signature medical legislation of the century. and now it is his first interview that. the former healthcare.gov ceo. very good to have you. thank you for coming. >> good to be year. neil: the saga. it is a real interesting legal saga. are you better? >> not really. in know, life goes on. i have a family. i have a future. you just have to put things behind. i cannot keep drinking and pausing. you have to move forward. i am an optimist. the glass is always half full with me. i believe the future is bright. i am always trying to find the good in everything that i do. i am not bitter. it is behind me, and i am moving

on. neil: you did your time. punishment meted out to what punishment taken, punishment absorbers. it sounds like you are still being punished when a judge refuses to allow you to serve on a public company or by extension even weigh in on what is the biggest government undertaking since the new deal, this health care law. neil: i think that part of the reason the judge ruled that is simply we did not do a good job from a legal standpoint filing our motion. the judge said that i could come back in five years and have that bar removed. that is what we did. apparently we did not prove all of the points that she wanted prove it. he will take some of the blame on that. i think she is a good judge. i really think that we have done the things she wanted us to do. i am not bitter about that. i don't know that i would ever serve on the board of a public

company or even want to be the ceo of a public company again, but i want the advise companies. right now is really a great time bunt. back in 1982, 1983 when the health care law changed to went from a crawlspace reimbursement system to a diagnostic group related program. cut about a third of all the profits. it created an opportunity to build a new health care model that was more efficient to move patients through the system. right now today i see a similar change. anytime you have changed you open doors. new opportunities. although real on to be yours are chomping at the bit to try and make lemonade out of the situation. i believe there are a lot that will. in my daily phone calls i see some many opportunities. neil: a lot of people look at the health care law and say that it is closing out private initiatives and the role of

private companies. and it is going quite the opposite way. >> i take your point. heard.are some companies will be any time you change things there will be people who have pain and people who have been. neil: what do you think of the launch of this? a lot of people. >> i think that you cannot deny it. you know, i have built and been involved in building a lot of digital programs, websites and a lot of different things that are similar. i can understand this failing like it did. a lot of your technology folks do over cell themselves. this should not have happened. i truly do not believe that you can blame the president on this. i believe that someone down the line -- i know if i hired a group like this to do that and they failed to my hope would not be blamed.

the bottom line is it is not right. it is a disaster. that can be fixed. neil: when you were on the outside, say what people have said, the fact of the latter is folks who were second to none marshaling something that, you know, ultimately was shepherding tens of thousands of americans through a system. so even from its earliest launched to it's, you know, and carnations along the way to my doctors were involved. i t phelps. we are now learning very few doctors were involved, and very few good hygiene guys were involved. that is not encouraging. >> no, and you are right. because we were accompanied, we were not tied to any, you know, government bidding situations, not influenced by any political situation. we were able to hire the best and most talented people and build the best systems that we

could. i think that everyone is disappointed and there is no doubt about it that this should not have happened. there are other things we have to look at. the other things we have to look after my deductibles, make sure that doctors are not opting out of this program. your primary-care physician. neil: in droves. that is what people are getting so ticked off. not only are realizing that they're losing their coverage, but if they want either or both back it will have to pay through the nose to bring it back. >> several things. the premiums can not go up. the deductible problem. make sure there is not too big of a gap and people are not devastated with catastrophic illnesses. you have that, the doctor issues, people being thrown out of programs. those things have got to stop. the knows that and they have got to do something about it.

the opportunities, what does all that creates? doctors need help. i am working with the company and have been in discussions with them about creating a better system for doctors were they can increase talk to profitability by 30 to 40%, increase the flow of patients, the business systems and would not. companies that have helped providers. surgery centers to manage the centers until bring more business and create efficiencies . as well as talking with companies that can help businesses, go in and create systems where they can help businesses reduce their health care costs, reduce the actual cost of procedures in the processing of people. neil: bottom line, you see a lot of opportunity to make this work. if you don't mind if i can switch gears a little bit and go back to something i thought of knowing you would join us today and what is going on today with the government targeting a lot of these investment banks and a

lot of the ceos. they seem to be looking for the proverbial head on a stake. i argued back when you were targeted along as the same era, they wanted some prominence, big names that are justified or no, they needed those heads on a stick and you were one of them. i am wondering whether it is the banks turned, and that is what is happening now. what do you think? >> it may be. i can tell you this, and i am sure you are talking specifically. i met and worked with people that knew him and people that worked under him. and i have much respect for the ability of jamie dimon and is killed. he did a lot of great things when he was there. i watch his career. i know that once you -- once the prosecutors get into your business and they began to appeal back tears there going to

-- the fine things. no one is perfect. he to companies that have tens of thousands of employees and no one is going to be perfect. neil: they're paying billions and billions and billions. the government gets off scot-free. you could make an argument that the banks deserve this. certainly all of this is a result of a government that all but encouraged this. is that fair? >> you know, i have to be careful with what i say. i have been a target of the government. i don't want to rile up a bunch of prosecutors to find something wrong with something else. i moved on. i hate to see the government attacking anybody. i have stood in court rooms where prosecutors absolutely said things that were not to rattle. none of them were held accountable for their actions in the things that they said. the system is broken. and yet appointed attorneys and a prosecutor that can stand in the court room in front of a federal judge or a state judge and say anything they want and not be held accountable for the

lines and the things they say, we are living in the country right now the people really need to wake up and take a look at our justice system and what is going on pre-raphaelite was mistreated, i was of a not guilty of any crime. knighted time in prison that i should have never done. you have a governor said and in prison right now. the man never get anything wrong . he did not commit this crime, and i can tell you that there are other people in prison. neil: when i talked to him in a prison cell, he admitted that may be his life style made him a target. he did not know anything about the $10,000 on braless gam. he said that his wife was behind those purchases. nevertheless, he said that that kind of got people's attention. not that it was the true, but if you leave the -- lead the lavish

lifestyle you become more of a target. do you think that is right? >> i do not think that it is right. i think that it is the american way. add up in my lifestyle compares with most of the people out there. i had a lake house and farm, a boat and airplane. maybe it is lavish. look. that me tell you, he built the $40 billion company from scratch. we built a multibillion-dollar company from scratch that is worth billions of dollars. i hope that in this country today if you can build a billion dollar company that you can go out and spend some money and you make for doing it, and if you wire 50, 60, 70, 80,000 people and create jobs and the a billion dollars payroll, someone might say it is okay for you to spend money on what you want. i really think that is used in court rooms to make people look bad. a lot of times they looked at the peril. was paying a billion dollars payroll.

neil: rich people are frowned upon. we don't like rich people. we now feel that anyone who is successful as a lot of money. >> look, i am speaking on college campuses. i am asking people to raise their hands. they raised their hands. raise your hand if you want to make a hundred million dollars a year. most people raise there and. i don't want the responsibility. i don't want the liability that's what they say. just ask you in classrooms all over america. they will tell you these things. that is what they're telling me every day. neil: after all you have been through, whether justified or not, are you angry at this

government, this country, better? >> no, i am not. i am an optimist. i believe that things can be better. believe in a better future for this country. you go back to the attack from plaintiffs' attorneys and what they have done. believe that things will be okay and tustin believe that the shareholders and board of directors will treat me fair in the and then we will -- they will do the right things. i am an optimist. and believe in the best for people, this country, and at the end of the davey will build a better country and a better health care system. i think we ought to continue to fight for that. neil: thank you very much. more right after this. [ male announcer ] the founder of mercedes-benz

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built in south carolina. working without unions will be better for business spirit, but there will run in to a bump with unions saying no. what do you make of that? >> it is like trecker tree before halloween. it uses sound over in washington state thought that they were issuing for the new manufacturing a boeing 777x airplane, and now that they are not coming down hard, rumors are a blaze that they're going to be going down to a north charleston in south carolina. a big part of that may be because south carolina is a right to work state, and the workers actually gave the machinists the boot by almost a 3-1 margin back in 2009. neil: do you think that this is just something the unions figured out a couple of years

back when boeing move this operation to south carolina insisting that we are still doing a lot out of seattle and we will not be abandoning seattle. i remember talking to one of the reps at the time. no, no, this is like a trojan horse. it is starting. is it? >> you have to remember, they did not move anything from washington. neil: that's right. you're right. but that was the fear. that was their fear. and maybe it is being borne out. >> in your company you have a plan. the workers are going on strike. the less strike. a new plan. you have to risk were pools. the workers are going to come to

work. your product delivery on time with a warrior of the strike. neil: all right. thank you very much. you will watch closely. in the meantime, this has been going on for a while. no one knows what is behind all of this. san f maine, they are not saying i think it is a spaceship and they're going to pluto. i cannot prove it. all i know is everyone is asking it's a growing trend in business: do more with less with ss energy.hp is help. soon, the world's most intelligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over twice the performance,

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neil: the dow is up about 20% for the year. if the s&p up about 25%. you ever wonder what happens if the fed just says, that's it, party is over, no indication that it will slow down the money it has been pouring in. they're wondering what happens when that happens. then what? >> you have had 33 new highs made this year already. and i do not believe that the fed will poll the punch bowl that sent. a lot of smart people, weighs more than i am crunching numbers right now the momentum is on their side. smart money. they're nibbling higher. to the average person to my think this is a time of reflection. betty nasa a lot of value. a quick tip, look at something called the peg ratio. if it is greater than one. five, you might watch out and be careful. for now the stocks are going higher.

i do not think that the fed is pulling the punch bowl. neil: the free markets and that don't like the government doing anything for me. and all this is built on the government's, that is the fed doing this $85 billion a month thing, that a lot to me, is weird. >> it is fair to me to. anyone that thinks the fed is separate from the government is fooling themselves. but i kind of liken it to if you are an investment dollar walking down the street and you see a commodities party on the side and see a bond party and you also see the equis party, you're going into the equities party because it is silly place in getting any kind of return, especially in the dividend sectors. bond rates likely going up at some point next year. commodities have been a total waste land. equities are the only place to be. neil: i wonder when the fed does finally tapir, ease up on this, is it that devastating? i will always argue that if they pull it all together rates would

not be that much higher. maybe i am wrong. >> it will be more of a gradual thing. what's got just said was a key point. it is the attraction of the other assets. right now wellesz attraction, driving equities. rates really would need to rise quite a bit. forcing people away from the stock market. i don't think it will be an immediate correction. a gradual thing, probably a year out of more. neil: i do want to turn our attention to something that is weird. it concerns. no one knows what this is. san francisco, a closely guarded , wrapped up so tight you would not know what is in there. everything that has to do with privacy and secrecy agreements on the part of officials, they're not letting anyone know what this is.

this thing with government officials and all of these committees with this stuff is going on. i fear it is a rocket ship and that something bad will happen to planet earth and all of the executives and apparently some san francisco council members are going to go to pluto and i am going to get screwed. i am wondering what this could be or is this just trauma and great marketing? >> it is probably all of that. i don't think it is as fine as it once was thought to be. neil: the end of the solar system. go ahead. >> it's all gas. floating datacenter with a patented in 2008. that could be the idea. is it a store, a time capsule that can fit on the west and his ego? your nose. neil: there is no such capsule. >> that's true. great marketing, and it may be something that helps the government and nsa spy on all of us.

as we know, they did cooperate in that investigation. neil: it could be a monster. >> i did we get on connie west? i was doing some research. a couple of things. great to build on water. the other things if you use water to cool the apparatus aside what's interesting is who can move these things around. that lends itself well to the data center argument or to the super megastore argument. here is the deal. i'd love the company. neil: tomorrow is halloween, the scariest day of the year. what i you doing? >> i am watching barrick gold and also is looking at earnings rolling out. the market will move lower in to this weekend and even take a break. neil: scott. >> mastercard, earnings out after the bell tomorrow. i am looking at how the consumer

is doing leading up to the shutdown. it will see how they are hanging in. neil: you mentioned consumers, i feel more tricks and treats for consumers. as they're coming to find a mother might be paying more than they thought. could they revised their own spending plan? >> they might, but the fun thing is when the tough get going, the tough go shopping. you have to ask depend on the consumer. the economy is getting better. there is nothing more fun than going on and pulling out that credit card. >> santa claus rally is coming, but my health care costs will go about 40% with obamacare. i might think twice. neil: i know your wife is due any minute. these are issues that will be of great concern to you, your man. best of luck. a lot of you have been e-mail in me. i am coming as a liberal this year. i'm going to knock on doors and

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♪ ♪ >> live from washington d.c., here is gerri willis. ♪ gerri: hello, everybody. i'm gerri willis. tonight on a special edition of "the willis report" live from washington d.c., nothing is changing. that is the take away from health and human services secretary testifying before the house energy and commerce committee on the obamacare website mess today. she apologized, but not rolling back on deadlines.